Monday, 16 May 2011

Louise Holmes' Testimony Shows Kelly's Body Not Found At Harrowdown Hill


1 LORD HUTTON: Very well. Thank you very much indeed,
2 Dr Warner.
3 MR KNOX: My Lord, the next witness is Ms Holmes, please.
4 LORD HUTTON: Yes. Thank you.
6 Examined by MR KNOX
7 Q. Ms Holmes, could you tell the Inquiry your full name?
8 A. It is Louise Holmes.
9 Q. And your occupation?
10 A. I am a hearing dog trainer.
11 Q. Sorry?
12 A. I am a hearing dog trainer.
13 Q. For how long have you done that?
14 A. The past two years.
15 Q. And who are you employed by to do that job?
16 A. I am employed by the charity Hearing Dogs for Deaf
17 People.
18 Q. How much experience do you have of foot searches for
19 missing persons?
20 A. I have been a member of my local search and rescue team
21 for nearly two years now.
22 Q. On Friday 18th July did you go to Abingdon police
23 station?
24 A. I did, yes.
25 Q. At what sort of time did you go?

1 A. I arrived there around quarter past/half past 7.
2 Q. When you got there, what were you told?
3 A. I was given a briefing, the name of the person that we
4 were looking for, a description of what he was wearing
5 when he was last seen and I was given an area to go and
6 search.
7 Q. And who gave you this briefing?
8 A. It was done by a police officer and SEBEVs Control
9 manager, Neil Knight.
10 Q. Were you given a photograph of the person you were
11 looking for?
12 A. Yes, we were given a photograph and an A4 piece of paper
13 with the name and a description of the missing person on
14 it.
15 Q. Were you told anything about the person you were looking
16 for, in particular?
17 A. Nothing other than what we were told. We were not given
18 any other details. It was made -- it was mentioned it
19 would probably become clearer during the day that it was
20 somebody who was fairly important, but other than that
21 we were not -- I had no idea of who he was.
22 Q. And you were given the name, Dr Kelly; is that right?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And were you in fact aware of Dr Kelly, who he was,
25 before this or had you read about it in the press?

1 A. Not until after the search when somebody said: who is
2 this guy? And then I went: oh yes.
3 Q. Who was assisting you when you went on this search?
4 A. I had Paul Chapman with me and then my search dog,
5 because I was out searching with my dog.
6 Q. Your search dog was called Brock, I understand?
7 A. Brock, yes.
8 Q. What sort of a dog was he?
9 A. He is a border collie crossed with an Australian
10 shepherd.
11 Q. You were at the police station initially, then where do
12 you drive to?
13 A. We drove to the start of our search area, which was at
14 the bottom of Common Lane in Longworth.
15 Q. That is where you had been told to go by the police
16 initially?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. You parked and got out of the car?
19 A. We parked the car at the bottom of the search area and
20 then started our search from where we had parked.
21 Q. About what time did you arrive at the search area?
22 A. It was about 8 o'clock.
23 Q. And what type of search was it that you were going to
24 do? Could you describe the method you were going to
25 have to adopt for this search?

1 A. Well, I was working with the search dog, so it was
2 a search with the dog and we did it purely as an air
3 scent exercise, so the dog is trained to pick up on
4 particles of human scent and then follow them to their
5 source.
6 Q. Who was on this search?
7 A. Me, the dog and Paul.
8 Q. No-one else had joined you?
9 A. No.
10 Q. And where did you initially go, after you got out of the
11 car? Can you remember?
12 A. We walked up the track that runs north, I am told, on my
13 map of Common Lane up towards the River Thames.
14 Q. Can you describe, generally, how the search went
15 initially? Where did you go?
16 A. We were given the track to search north up to the
17 River Thames as our boundary and the area of wood to the
18 left of the track. So we did the bottom half of the
19 track, the south boundary of the woods before we were
20 forced to turn back because of a bashed wire fence. So
21 we then searched through the bottom half of the woods
22 which the fence ran all the way through. We then came
23 back out on to the track, continued up the track to
24 the -- to where our boundary was, came back down the
25 track and did the north perimeter of the wood, and then

1 went into the wood from the north.
2 Q. Did you at any point go along the River Thames?
3 A. We went up to where we -- where our boundary of our
4 search area was on the Thames and spoke to some people
5 there who were just moored on a boat on the Thames.
6 Q. What did you say to them?
7 A. Well, Brock had found them because he obviously is just
8 trained to pick up on human scent, so he went off and
9 indicated on them and so I had a game with him as
10 a reward. They just said: what are you doing? We said
11 we were assisting the police in the search for a missing
12 male person and if they saw anything to contact the
13 police.
14 Q. Did they say they already had seen anything?
15 A. They said they had seen the helicopter up the previous
16 night but they had not seen anybody or anything other
17 than that.
18 Q. Did you eventually manage to get into the wooded area?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Can you remember roughly what point that was? Was that
21 from the north or the south?
22 A. We did the north boundary of the wood. The wind was
23 blowing south to north and Brock was scenting in towards
24 the woods. So we came around and came in from the east
25 side of the wood.

1 Q. Then are you still with Mr Chapman at that point?
2 A. Yes, Paul was with me.
3 Q. What happened once you got into the wood?
4 A. We went into the woods a little way and Brock started to
5 pick up -- he gets quite excited when he gets on to
6 something. And he went off at a quicker pace so
7 I quickened to try to keep up with him, and I just
8 carried on following him and letting him work the area
9 and followed on until he went so that he was nearly
10 almost completely out of my vision, but I could see his
11 tail wagging and he went into the bottom of a tree and
12 then came running back at me barking to indicate that he
13 had found something.
14 Q. How far into the wood, roughly, was this from the point
15 that you had actually mentioned to get in, a mile or
16 less than that?
17 A. No, probably only about 200 metres.
18 Q. Before Brock had found this person, had you noticed
19 anything unusual in the woods? Was there anything in
20 particular you had spotted?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Had Brock identified anything before that?
23 A. Nothing, no.
24 Q. When Brock comes running back towards you, what do you
25 then do?

1 A. He is trained that when he comes back when he has found
2 something he will come back and bark at me, and then
3 I just say: show me. He is trained he will turn round
4 and go back and lead me straight back into what it is
5 that he has found. But he came back and he was barking,
6 so I just said: good boy, where is it? He just sort of
7 laid down and looked at me, at which point I thought: oh
8 okay, he has found something but there is something
9 obviously not quite the same as a normal search or
10 a normal training exercise. So I just went from the
11 direction of which he had come until I got first visual
12 on the body.
13 Q. So in other words you walked ahead in that case?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Presumably Brock followed along afterwards?
16 A. He did not actually, he stayed sitting where he was.
17 Q. What did you see?
18 A. I could see a body slumped against the bottom of a tree,
19 so I turned around and shouted to Paul to ring Control
20 and tell them that we had found something and then went
21 closer to just see whether there was any first aid that
22 I needed to administer.
23 Q. And how close up to the body did you go?
24 A. Within sort of a few feet of the body.
25 Q. And did you notice anything about the position of the

1 body?
2 A. He was at the base of the tree with almost his head and
3 his shoulders just slumped back against the tree.
4 Q. And what about his legs and arms? Where were they?
5 A. His legs were straight in front of him. His right arm
6 was to the side of him. His left arm had a lot of blood
7 on it and was bent back in a funny position.
8 Q. Did you see any blood anywhere else?
9 A. Just on the left arm and the left side.
10 Q. Could you tell whether or not this was the person you
11 had been asked to look for?
12 A. Yes, the person matched the description that we had been
13 given.
14 Q. And could you tell whether he was alive or dead?
15 A. As far as I -- I was happy in my own mind that he was
16 dead and that there was nothing that I could do to help
17 him.
18 Q. What about Mr Chapman, he was obviously with you at this
19 point, I take it?
20 A. He was further back than I was.
21 Q. He was further back when you first saw the body?
22 A. Yes, and he stayed there to ring Control while I went to
23 check whether there was ...
24 Q. How long did you spend looking at the body before you
25 went back?

1 A. Probably only a couple of minutes, if even that. Just
2 enough to check for any signs of life, make myself happy
3 that there was none and that there was nothing I could
4 do; and then I went to go and reward my dog for his
5 find.
6 Q. I take it you did not actually go up to the body itself
7 and feel the pulse?
8 A. I did not touch it, no.
9 Q. And when you went back to Mr Chapman, which path did you
10 take?
11 A. I walked as best as I could back out the path I walked
12 in.
13 Q. I take it from that there was a specific path you had
14 walked in; was it actually a track?
15 A. No, there were no tracks in the wooded area we were
16 searching, no definite tracks anyway.
17 Q. Were there any tracks, as it were, around the wooded
18 area you were able to see, where the body was, or had
19 the person obviously walked in through the woods?
20 A. Not that I remember seeing, but ...
21 Q. When you got back to Mr Chapman, what happened next?
22 A. Paul had tried to ring Control but had been unable to
23 get to them on the number we had for Control so we
24 decided to ring through to ask to speak to Abingdon off
25 a 999 call. So Paul rang the 999 and said we had some

1 information relating to that search, and somebody from
2 Abingdon rang us back and we arranged to walk back to
3 the car to meet the police officer to take them and show
4 them where the body was.
5 Q. When you say someone from Abingdon, would that be
6 Abingdon hospital?
7 A. Abingdon police station.
8 Q. And what did you then do?
9 A. We walked back towards the car. On the way to the car
10 we met three police officers and Paul took them back to
11 show them where the body was, and I went back to the
12 car.
13 Q. Did you meet the police officers in the woods or after
14 you got out of the woods?
15 A. No, on the track, just between the woods and the car.
16 Q. What did you tell the police officers?
17 A. They identified to us who they were. We said who we
18 were and we were involved in the search and we had found
19 the body, and they went with Paul to see.
20 Q. So in other words, Paul Chapman goes back with the
21 police to show them where the body is?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. What did you do?
24 A. I went back to the car to sort the dog out and then when
25 I got to the car further police officers and personnel

1 came up to the car to take over, take over the scene.
2 Q. Did you then go back to the scene at all?
3 A. No.
4 Q. So you presumably drove back?
5 A. Yes, I was around about my car and car area for a while;
6 and then I was taken back to Abingdon police station to
7 give a statement.
8 Q. Did you have to wear any special clothes or special
9 shoes or anything?
10 A. I just wore my normal walking shoes, trousers.
11 Q. Did you hand in any of your clothes or shoes?
12 A. A print was taken of my shoes but they did not retain my
13 shoes, they just took a copy of the soles.
14 Q. The print was taken by the police, I take it?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Is there anything else you would like to tell this
17 Inquiry about the circumstances of Dr Kelly's death or
18 indeed the circumstances in which you found his body?
19 A. No, I do not think so.
20 LORD HUTTON: Thank you very much indeed, Ms Holmes. Thank
21 you.
22 Mr Dingemans, I understand that Mr Chapman is going
23 to give evidence. Would he like to give evidence from
24 where he is sitting?
25 MR DINGEMANS: I think Mr Chapman wants to go into the

1 witness box, my Lord, but he has broken his leg so it
2 will take a bit of time to get there.
3 LORD HUTTON: Very well, I will just rise.
4 (11.00 am)
13 A. Initial search was we progressed north up the path,
14 Brock ahead of us searching and us searching, checking
15 the ditches either side and the pathway, until we
16 reached the southern perimeter of Harrowdown Hill wood.
17 We then entered the field by the wood, did a search of
18 the southern perimeter of the wood until we reached
19 a barrier, the barbed wire fence halfway round the other
20 side.
21 Q. Did you climb over the fence?
22 A. No, we decided not to. We decided to retrace our steps
23 round the wood back to the main path so we knew on the
24 map where we were and what areas we had covered.
25 Q. While you were searching up to the barrier, had you seen

1 anyone at this stage?
2 A. No.
3 Q. Or heard anything?
4 A. No, nothing at all.
5 Q. You hit the barrier then retrace your steps.
6 A. We retraced our steps and entered the southern side of
7 the wood and had a look through the inside of the wood,
8 where it was slightly more open.
9 Q. Could you see anything?
10 A. Could not see anything. There was the barbed wire fence
11 running the whole way through the woods, so that formed
12 our natural barrier within the wood.
13 Q. How large was the wood?
14 A. 50 to 100 metres across, roughly.
15 Q. Did you walk into the wood?
16 A. We did, yes.
17 Q. Up to the barbed wire in the wood?
18 A. Up to the barbed wire, yes.
19 Q. Where was the dog at this stage?
20 A. The dog was ranging from 5, 10, 15 metres ahead of us,
21 running in and out of the bushes and the areas. We were
22 just following that. There were no paths or anything so
23 we were having to climb across trees and go round all
24 the bushes and things.
25 Q. Did you come across anything?

1 A. Nothing in the southern area, no.
2 Q. Having searched the southern area of the wood, what did
3 you do then?
4 A. We returned to the main path, consulted with each other,
5 looked at the map and decided we would do the rest of
6 the pathway down to the river and get that eliminated,
7 and then come back and do the rest of the wood.
8 Q. Did you do the rest of the pathway down to the river?
9 A. Yes, we walked all the way down the pathway, which came
10 out to a gate just by the River Thames.
11 Q. Did you see anyone on that search?
12 A. Not until we reached the river and we met the people on
13 the boat.
14 Q. How many people were on the boat?
15 A. Either three or four, I cannot remember.
16 Q. Did you speak to them?
17 A. Yes, we did.
18 Q. What did you say to them?
19 A. They enquired what we were doing. We explained a search
20 team assisting the police, looking for a missing person,
21 and gave them a rough description of his age and said if
22 they saw anything could they contact the police.
23 Q. Had they seen anything?
24 A. They had heard the helicopter and seen some police
25 officers at some point previously.

1 Q. Right. What, police officers on an earlier part of the
2 search?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. But they had not seen Dr Kelly at all?
5 A. No.
6 Q. After you had gone down to the river, spoken to them,
7 where do you go next?
8 A. We retraced our steps back up the pathway until we
9 reached the wood, came off the pathway and did the
10 northern perimeter of the wood until we came to the
11 other side of the barbed wire fence.
12 Q. You went back into the wood itself?
13 A. Initially no, we did the outside of the wood.
14 Q. Looking into the wood?
15 A. Looking into the wood. But it was quite dense
16 undergrowth so a lot of places you could not actually
17 get in through the perimeter there, but we were checking
18 the wood.
19 Q. When you could get through a gap did you get into the
20 wood itself?
21 A. We did not enter the wood there until we returned back
22 to the main path.
23 Q. Where was the dog at this stage?
24 A. The dog was running around, like I say, just ahead of
25 us. We were keeping back so we do not affect its scent

1 and smell.
2 Q. How long did it take to do the northern part of the
3 wood?
4 A. A guess, about 10 or 15 minutes.
5 Q. Did anything happen while you were doing the northern
6 part of the wood?
7 A. Nothing. Did not find anything. There were no
8 indications from the dog either.
9 Q. Where do you go after that?
10 A. Once we reached the barbed wire fence we retraced our
11 steps to the main path, again walking down the side of
12 the wood where it is much more open. We then entered
13 the wood after another 10 or 15 metres, and walked into
14 the wood from there.
15 Q. What part of the wood are you now looking at?
16 A. We are in the northern sector of the wood.
17 Q. Right. And does anything happen here?
18 A. After about five minutes the dog indicates a find and
19 Louise --
20 Q. Where were you? Were you on the outside of the wood?
21 A. I was in the wood about five metres behind Louise.
22 Q. What happened to the dog?
23 A. The dog was ahead, I could hardly see the dog at that
24 point. I was just following up the hill and Louise then
25 said -- indicated -- said he had found something and she

1 went forward to investigate, whereas I waited there.
2 Q. So you did not move at this stage?
3 A. No, I waited there, as we are trained to do in case it
4 is a scenes of crime or anything, so we do not
5 contaminate it.
6 Q. To avoid trampling down?
7 A. Yes, in case there is evidence or anything like that.
8 Q. Louise went up and looked. She came back?
9 A. She came back towards me.
10 Q. What did she say?
11 A. Yes, she told me we had found the missing person and at
12 that point I tried to contact our Control to let them
13 know.
14 Q. Did you get through to Control?
15 A. We did not on the mobiles, no, because the mobiles were
16 all to answerphone.
17 Q. So how did you contact anyone?
18 A. I then rang 999 and asked to be put through to Abingdon
19 police station. They could not transfer me so I asked
20 them to get someone at Abingdon police station to call
21 me urgently.
22 Q. On your mobile?
23 A. On my mobile, yes.
24 Q. Did they call back?
25 A. They called back within a couple of minutes, yes.

1 Q. Do you remember who you spoke to?
2 A. I do not. He just said it was a sergeant at Abingdon
3 police station.
4 Q. What did you report to him?
5 A. I reported who I was, a member of the search team, and
6 we had found the missing person, could they please then
7 speak to the search manager and the search police
8 officers there and get them to give me a ring.
9 Q. Did they?
10 A. Yes, they did. They called me back straight after that.
11 Q. What arrangements did you make?
12 A. At that point we were walking back down the path towards
13 the car and they said: keep going there and we will send
14 some police officers out to meet you there, back at your
15 car, Louise's car.
16 Q. Were you standing still in the wood all this time?
17 A. Initially, yes, but then we began walking out of the
18 wood back to the path because we realised that we would
19 have to go and meet the officers, and it was about
20 a 10 minute walk back to the car down the path so we
21 thought it is easiest to get going.
22 Q. Did you see what Brock the dog had found?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And what was that?
25 A. The body of a gentleman sitting up against a tree.

1 Q. And can you recall what he was wearing?
2 A. All I could see from the distance I got was he was
3 wearing a dark jacket and light coloured shirt.
4 Q. And how close did you get to the body?
5 A. I probably reached about 15 to 20 metres from it.
6 Q. Could you see anything at all?
7 A. He was sitting with his back up against a tree and there
8 was an obvious injury to his left arm.
9 Q. An obvious injury to his left arm. What was that
10 injury?
11 A. In as far as it was all covered in blood.
12 Q. Right. After you had seen that, where did you go next?
13 A. We retraced our steps back down to the main path and
14 then walked back south along the path to where the car
15 was parked.
16 Q. Did the police attend?
17 A. Yes, they did.
18 Q. And did you help them when they had arrived?
19 A. Yes. As we were going down the path we met three police
20 officers coming the other way that were from CID. We
21 identified ourselves to them. They were not actually
22 aware that (a) the body had been found or we were out
23 searching this area. They I think had just come out on
24 their own initiative to look at the area. I informed
25 them we had found the body and they asked me to take

1 them back to indicate where it was.
2 Q. So these were not the people you had arranged to meet,
3 as it were?
4 A. No, because this was only 2 or 3 minutes after I had
5 made the phone call.
6 Q. How did you know they were police officers?
7 A. Because they showed me their Thames Valley Police
8 identification.
9 Q. Do you recall their names?
10 A. Only one of them was DC Coe.
11 Q. Did you show them the body?
12 A. Yes. We walked back up the hill with the three of them
13 and then they decided as they got a bit closer to the
14 edge of the wood that I needed only to take one of the
15 officers in, so I took DC Coe in to show him where the
16 body was.
17 Q. What were you wearing at the time?
18 A. I was wearing my standard search kit, walking boots,
19 outdoor trousers, our uniform polo shirts.
20 Q. Did you need to give anything to the police?
21 A. All they did was take a copy of the soles of my boots.
22 Q. Right. After that, what happened?
23 A. Once we had shown them where the body was, we returned
24 to the car. More police officers had arrived there. We
25 waited around a while until we were released from the

1 scene, where we went back with one of the police
2 officers to Abingdon police station where we made our
3 statements.
4 Q. You made your statement and then go off to work?
5 A. It was mid afternoon by the time we had finished there.
6 I actually had a day off as I was going away to cub camp
7 for the weekend.
8 Q. Do you know of anything else surrounding the
9 circumstances of Dr Kelly's death that you can assist
10 his Lordship with?
11 A. No, I do not.
12 LORD HUTTON: Thank you very much indeed, Mr Chapman. Just
13 take your time, please, to leave and do not rush at all.
14 Thank you very much.
16 Examined by MR DINGEMANS
17 Q. Could you tell his Lordship your full name?
18 A. My name is Dean Andrew Franklin.
19 Q. And your occupation?
20 A. I am a police constable with the police support team,
21 Thames Valley Police.
22 Q. Where are you based?
23 A. We are based at the Royal Lodge in Windsor Great Park.
24 Q. Were you on duty on 18th July?
25 A. I was called on duty from my home address.

1 Q. What time did you get a call?
2 A. 06.15 hours.
3 Q. And do you live near Windsor then?
4 A. I live in Windsor.
5 Q. Where were you called to?
6 A. To Abingdon police station.
7 Q. How long did it take to get there?
8 A. Just over an hour.
9 Q. When you arrived, who else was there?
10 A. I met with my sergeant, Paul Woods, who took us into
11 a briefing; and there was several other officers there.
12 Q. How many officers were there?
13 A. I could not tell you exactly.
14 Q. But roughly?
15 A. 8 to 10.
16 Q. You were given a briefing by your sergeant?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. What was the nature of the briefing?
19 A. The nature of the briefing was initially a missing
20 person search, to look for Dr David Kelly.
21 Q. You were given some details of Dr Kelly?
22 A. Yes, we were given a photograph with his details on it,
23 what he was supposed to be wearing, and then
24 Sergeant Woods and I discussed the search parameters and
25 whereabouts we would start the search.

1 Q. And what was the nature of that discussion?
2 A. With all missing person inquiries we look, initially, to
3 beauty spots, areas that are frequented by the missing
4 person, and that is where we would start our search.
5 Q. Had you got any information about what areas he
6 frequented then?
7 A. I was passed that information by Sergeant Woods.
8 Q. What were you told by Sergeant Woods?
9 A. The search would begin at Harrowdown Hill, which was
10 apparently an area frequented by Dr Kelly on his regular
11 walking route.
12 Q. And having had this discussion with Sergeant Woods,
13 where do you go then?
14 A. We were actually at the police station. I was just
15 deploying my team --
16 Q. How many are in your team?
17 A. I was given a search team leader, which is PC Sawyer,
18 and 6 other officers, when we received a call that
19 a body had been found at Harrowdown Hill.
20 Q. Do you know how many other people were out searching at
21 this time?
22 A. I believe it was only the two volunteers out searching
23 at that time. The parameters for our search and the
24 logistics of calling our teams in does take a bit of
25 time. So PC Sawyer and I were going to be the first

1 team out on the ground.
2 Q. We have heard evidence about a helicopter out searching
3 the night before. Had you heard about that?
4 A. No.
5 Q. After you get that information, where did you go?
6 A. PC Sawyer and I attended Harrowdown Hill and went to the
7 scene. We were unsure initially whereabouts we were
8 going, but we passed Paul from the South East Berks
9 Volunteers and he directed us to two uniformed police
10 officers and DC Coe.
11 Q. The South East Berks Volunteers, what are they?
12 A. They are SEBEVs. South East Berks Volunteers. They are
13 an organisation we use regularly for missing person
14 searches.
15 Q. To help?
16 A. To help us. They are a highly professional and
17 motivated organisation.
18 Q. You mentioned DC Coe. Was he part of your search team?
19 A. No.
20 Q. What he was he doing?
21 A. He was at the scene. I had no idea what he was doing
22 there or why he was there. He was just at the scene
23 when PC Sawyer and I arrived.
24 Q. Who was in charge of the scene at this time?
25 A. DC Coe was until I turned up and then I took charge of

1 the scene.
2 Q. Did you get taken into the wood?
3 A. DC Coe took us into the woods, PC Sawyer and myself, to
4 the area where the body was.
5 Q. And what did you see there?
6 A. We walked between 50 and 70 metres into the wood up
7 a slight gradient, and in a clearing at the base of
8 a tree was the body of a white male.
9 Q. Do you recall what was being worn?
10 A. I believe he had a blue jacket on, a white coloured
11 shirt and blue denim jeans.
12 Q. And what was his position?
13 A. He was lying on his back with his right hand to his side
14 and his left hand was sort of inverted with the palm
15 facing down (Indicates), facing up on his back.
16 Q. Did you see any signs of injury on the body?
17 A. There was a fair amount of blood to the left wrist area
18 and on the left hand, and a fair amount of blood sort of
19 puddled around.
20 Q. On the ground?
21 A. On the ground, yes.
22 Q. Did you see whether or not there was a watch or anything
23 on the body?
24 A. If I may refer to my notes?
25 Q. Yes, of course.

2 A. The wrist watch was lying away from the body, next to
3 a knife. The wrist watch was just to the left of the
4 left arm, with the knife next to it, and also there was
5 an open bottle of water at the scene.
6 Q. An open bottle of water?
7 A. Yes, the wrist watch was off the wrist.
8 Q. What, mineral water?
9 A. A bottle of, yes, mineral water, a plastic bottle.
10 Q. How large was that bottle, a big bottle or a small one?
11 A. A small one.
12 Q. And what did the knife look like?
13 A. The blade was open. It was some sort of lock knife. I
14 cannot be that precise. I believe it had a curved --
15 slight curve to the blade. The blade was maybe 3 to
16 4 inches long.
17 Q. Was there anything on the blade?
18 A. Blood.
19 Q. Was there anything else beside the bottle of water, the
20 blade and the wrist watch?
21 A. No.
22 Q. And did you form any opinion about whether or not there
23 was a sign of life?
24 A. We had two paramedics who were following closely behind
25 us, but my initial thought was the body we had found was

1 that of a dead man.
2 Q. Did you recognise the body?
3 A. I believed it was Dr David Kelly.
4 Q. From the descriptions?
5 A. From the descriptions and the photograph we had.
6 Q. Having located the body, what did you do as a result of
7 that?
8 A. The paramedics came to the scene to pronounce life
9 extinct, which they did.
10 Q. Did you see them do that?
11 A. Yes, we did.
12 Q. When you first saw the body, were there any pads on the
13 chest?
14 A. No, the shirt was done up when we got there. My
15 colleague -- if I may explain. We take photographs of
16 these sort of scenes all the time as a matter of course
17 because we knew the paramedics would be disturbing the
18 clothing and possibly disturbing the scene.
19 Q. You took the photographs?
20 A. PC Sawyer.
21 Q. Before the body was disturbed?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. That showed the shirt buttoned up?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Copies of those photographs have been supplied to the

1 Inquiry?
2 A. I believe PC Sawyer supplied them, yes.
3 Q. For fairly obvious reasons those are not being
4 published.
5 A. Absolutely, yes.
6 Q. They show the shirt buttoned up, do they?
7 A. The shirt was buttoned up. I believe PC Sawyer took
8 photographs during and after the procedure the
9 paramedics go through.
10 Q. What did you see the paramedics do?
11 A. The shirt was unbuttoned, they placed four sticky pads,
12 I believe it is four, on to the body, the chest, and
13 attached it to a medical machine -- sorry, I have no
14 idea what it is. And they pronounced life extinct at
15 10.07 hours that morning.
16 LORD HUTTON: May I just ask you: how long were you at the
17 scene before the paramedics arrived?
18 A. Less than two minutes.
19 LORD HUTTON: Less than two minutes. I see. Thank you.
20 MR DINGEMANS: After the paramedics have declared formally
21 life extinct, where did they go?
22 A. We all left the scene. We left the wooded area to
23 a natural break in the woods, a path which is where
24 PC Sawyer and I went. I believe the two paramedics left
25 the scene all together. I am not 100 per cent sure of

1 at because PC Sawyer and I went back in.
2 Q. You went back in?
3 A. To establish what we call a common approach path and to
4 mark it off where the area we had walked in.
5 Q. What is a common approach path?
6 A. A common approach path would be, in this instance, a
7 taped area. We taped it off either side so any person
8 visiting the scene, the only place they would walk would
9 be up the common approach path.
10 Q. Why do you do that?
11 A. Sterility of the scene and to preserve any evidence that
12 may be either side.
13 Q. And having set out this common approach path, what did
14 you do?
15 A. The common approach path was established and we then
16 taped off the area around the body, again for the same
17 reasons. We then left the scene and went back down to
18 collect our vehicle -- we had walked about three
19 quarters of a mile up to the scene -- to take our
20 vehicle back up to await senior CID officers and scenes
21 of crime.
22 Q. So you drive your vehicle back up?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And do you see what happens when the senior officers
25 arrive?

1 A. We were asked by the senior scenes of crime officer to
2 search the common approach path; PC Sawyer and myself
3 were.
4 Q. What does that involve?
5 A. A full search would involve hands and knees going
6 through every piece of undergrowth and twig. I stated
7 at the time that perhaps that was not prudent because
8 there were only two of us, so we did a check rather than
9 a full search of a common approach path. This would be
10 for any obvious dropped articles.
11 Q. And was the other area searched?
12 A. Which area, sir?
13 Q. Which is not on the common approach path.
14 A. Not initially. You mean either side of the common
15 approach path?
16 Q. Yes.
17 A. No.
18 Q. Do you know if that was ever searched?
19 A. It was searched. At 12.50 hours the same day I had
20 a request from DCI Young to fingertip search the common
21 approach path and either side. I decided as a police
22 search adviser to do 10 metres either side of the common
23 approach path at that time.
24 Q. So did you do a fingertip search of the common approach
25 path?

1 A. At 12.50 hours, yes. Not initially. The initial check
2 was done by PC Sawyer and I.
3 Q. That is the initial check?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Later on you are asked to do a fingertip search?
6 A. Yes. A full search team come in to do that.
7 Q. What do you wear when you do that type of search?
8 A. We were dressed forensically, white paper suits, hoods
9 up, masks, gloves, rubber gloves, and covering for our
10 feet.
11 Q. When you first went into the wood is that what you were
12 wearing?
13 A. No, we were dressed in summer search kit: black polo
14 shirt, black trousers and our work boots.
15 Q. What, your initial search was carried out in the summer
16 dress, was it?
17 A. In the summer search uniform. We had no forensic kit
18 with us at the time.
19 Q. When the forensic kit arrives and you start doing the
20 fingertip search, do you start on the common approach
21 path?
22 A. I actually, as police search adviser, do not do the
23 search; that was run by PC Sawyer.
24 Q. You watched them all doing it for you?
25 A. Some of the time. As police search adviser I have to

1 liaise with the senior officers about the policies for
2 the search and what we hope to get out of it, so I was
3 backwards and forwards.
4 Q. What were you hoping to get out of this search?
5 A. We have to speak to the DCI initially and he wanted us
6 to look for -- if again I may refer to my notes --
7 medicine or pill bottles, pills, pill foils or any
8 receptacle or bag that may contain medicines.
9 Q. You are doing a search for that. Are you also looking
10 for anything else?
11 A. Yes. The police search teams I work with would pick up
12 anything that would be dropped by a human or out of the
13 ordinary. Those are the items that were just specified
14 to us, but as a search team we tend to look for anything
15 that should not be there.
16 Q. And having searched the common approach path, either
17 side of the body was searched; is that right?
18 A. The common approach path was about 70 metres long. We
19 searched 10 metres either side. Then we had a request
20 to search 10 metres around the glade, if you like, the
21 opening in the woodland where the body was.
22 Q. Do you know whether anything was located as a result of
23 these fingertip searches?
24 A. Nothing.
25 Q. Do you know whether there were any signs of a struggle

1 seen as a result of these fingertip searches?
2 A. No, there was no sign of an obvious struggle.
3 Q. What time did you finish the searches that day?
4 A. The search of the common approach path and the area
5 10 metres around the top of the body was concluded at
6 16.45 hours that day, but then we were given another
7 task by the detective chief inspector.
8 Q. What was that other task?
9 A. The task was once the body had been removed for us to
10 fingertip search the area inside the tape where the body
11 was.
12 Q. Did you do that?
13 A. I changed search teams. PC Sawyer and I remained on
14 site, as police search adviser and team leader, but
15 I changed the search teams over and a new search team
16 came in, again dressed forensically, to do that.
17 Q. They carried out a fingertip search of that area?
18 A. They started at 19.24 hours and finished at 19.45 hours.
19 Q. Did they find anything?
20 A. Nothing.
21 Q. No sign of a struggle?
22 A. No.
23 Q. No other medicine bottles or anything?
24 A. No.
25 Q. And do you recall what was retrieved from the scene?

1 A. That would have been retrieved by the scenes of crime
2 officers. The actual scene where the body was was dealt
3 with by them first, hence the reason we had to wait
4 until nearly 7.30 in the evening to search the site.
5 They would have retrieved the knife, the wrist watch and
6 searched the body. That is not down to me and my team.
7 Q. They would have retrieved the knife, the wrist watch,
8 the bottle of water and the bottle of tablets we are
9 going to hear about?
10 A. Yes, I do not know about the bottle of tablets.
11 Q. And is there anything else surrounding the circumstances
12 of Dr Kelly's death that you can assist his Lordship
13 with?
14 A. Not with this initial part, sir, no.
15 LORD HUTTON: Constable Franklin, after you and your
16 colleague had found the body you then went back and
17 other police officers arrived on the scene, is that
18 right?
19 A. Are we talking initially, my Lord?
21 A. Initially it was just PC Sawyer and myself that went
22 into the scene, but, yes, the whole search team would
23 come up to a rendezvous point and be deployed by me from
24 there.
25 LORD HUTTON: How soon did you return with the search team

1 to the scene?
2 A. PC Sawyer and I left the scene and we returned with the
3 vehicle minutes later. The search team did not attend
4 until ...(Pause) About half past 12, I believe sir.
5 The search itself did not start until 1 o'clock in the
6 afternoon.
7 LORD HUTTON: I see, yes. You return with Constable Sawyer
8 just within a matter of minutes.
9 A. Yes.
10 LORD HUTTON: Thank you very much indeed.
11 A. My Lord, thank you.
12 LORD HUTTON: Thank you.
13 MR KNOX: My Lord, the next witness is Mr Sawyer.
15 Examined by MR KNOX
16 Q. Mr Sawyer, what is your full name?
17 A. Jonathan Martyn Sawyer.
18 Q. Your occupation?
19 A. I am a police constable with the Thames Valley Police,
20 stationed on the police search team the same as
21 PC Franklin.
22 Q. Which station?
23 A. That would be from the Royal Lodge in Windsor Great
24 Park.
25 Q. What are your qualifications?

1 A. I am a qualified EOD searcher, which is explosive
2 ordnance searcher. We have to be licensed by the Home
3 Office and we retrain on a periodic basis. We also
4 train to search major crime scenes, murder scenes and
5 any major event. We search events like Royal Ascot,
6 which we call a defensive search, to make sure there are
7 no explosive devices left. We also do offensive
8 searches or crime scene searches, as the Dr David Kelly
9 search.
10 Q. I understand you are a search team leader?
11 A. I am a search team leader, which means I have done
12 a further course which enables me to actually run
13 a search. Police Constable Franklin, being the police
14 search adviser, will liaise with the senior
15 investigating officer. They will decide on the
16 parameters of the search, what they want searched. It
17 is then turned over to me to organise the logistics of
18 it, to plan the search, do the cordons, to set the
19 searchers going and supervise them while they are
20 searching.
21 Q. You were on duty on the morning of 18th July?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. What happened when you first turned up?
24 A. I was called out, I believe, about 6 o'clock in the
25 morning to attend Abingdon police station for 8, where

1 I was informed by PC Franklin we had a high risk missing
2 person. We had a missing person who was identified to
3 me as Dr Kelly.
4 Q. Just pause there for a moment. A high risk missing
5 person, meaning what?
6 A. "High risk" means that there is a possibility that
7 because of the length of time they have been missing
8 there is a possibility that he might have done himself
9 harm.
10 Q. So Police Constable Franklin tells you that. Then what
11 happens?
12 A. Then we are in the briefing that
13 Police Constable Franklin has already described.
14 We are just about to leave to perform our first
15 searches, which would have been in the village and the
16 surrounding areas of the route he was thought to have
17 taken, when information came in that a body had been
18 found. I then left with Police Constable Franklin to
19 attend the scene.
20 Q. Can you remember what time it was that that information
21 came in?
22 A. It would have been about 9 o'clock, I believe.
23 Q. So you then leave with Police Constable Franklin?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And anyone else?

1 A. We had three other officers in the back who we took from
2 the search team to act as the cordons, because obviously
3 we do not want members of the public or members of the
4 press approaching the scene until it has been obviously
5 searched and declared sterile.
6 Q. And where did you then go?
7 A. We then went to the track that leads up to
8 Harrowdown Hill, I do not know the name of the track,
9 but when we arrived we saw a vehicle parked which
10 belonged to Louise. We started walking up the track.
11 We also had with us two paramedics who had arrived,
12 which we took up with us to make sure that the person we
13 were going to see did not require any medical
14 assistance.
15 Q. Those two paramedics had obviously arrived separately
16 from you?
17 A. They had arrived more or less at the same time we did.
18 So the five of us went up because we were with
19 Sergeant Alan Dadd as well.
20 Q. Where did you stop the cars?
21 A. Stopped the cars -- I believe it at is the top, I have
22 not seen the map but I believe it is at the top of
23 Common Lane. Then we turned left and right up to the
24 track which leads up to Harrowdown Hill.
25 Q. You go along the track, where do you then go to?

1 A. We met Paul from SEBEV walking down the hill.
2 Q. Paul Chapman?
3 A. He told us basically the body was further up in the
4 woods. We continued walking up the hill, where I saw
5 DC Coe and two uniformed officers. I said, you know:
6 whereabouts is the body? He pointed the path he had
7 taken. I asked him if he had approached the body. He
8 said he had. I asked him to point out where he had
9 entered the woods and PC Franklin and myself entered the
10 woods at the same point, taking with us a dozen or 15
11 aluminium poles we use when we are moving towards
12 a scene to establish a common approach path.
13 Q. Were the paramedics with you at the time?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. The other three officers?
16 A. They remained down on the path.
17 Q. So it is you, PC Franklin and two paramedics, then the
18 other three officers you have met; is that right?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. You go down further into the woods, is that right?
21 A. The three officers -- DC Coe and the two uniformed
22 officers -- stayed on the path which leads through the
23 woods. We branched off to the left about 50 or
24 70 metres up into the woods, where the body was.
25 Q. So it is just the four of you; is that right?

1 A. Just the four of us went up there.
2 Q. Did you see anything on the way? Did you notice
3 anything on the way?
4 A. No, no. As we walked through the woods we were leaving
5 our aluminium poles, which have a fluorescent marker on
6 the top, so we could establish the route we had taken
7 into the woods. As we crested the slight rise, I saw
8 the body lying at the base of a tree. I then said to
9 PC Franklin and the paramedics to stop while I got my
10 digital camera because I wanted to take a record of the
11 scene before it was -- before we actually approached it
12 at all. So I took a number of pictures as we approached
13 the body, and of the body and the surrounding area; and
14 then the paramedics asked if they could do their job, to
15 which we said: yes.
16 They tried to -- they used the paddles of the
17 electrocardiogram machine to try to see if there was
18 a sign of life through Dr Kelly's shirt. They were
19 unable to do so and said: could they undo the shirt?
20 I said: yes. I asked them to wait for a second. I took
21 another two more reference pictures. They then undid
22 the shirt, put the electrodes on and got a graph from
23 the machine which showed there were no signs of life.
24 I then -- they disconnected their equipment from the
25 machine, leaving the electrodes in place; I asked them

1 to do that. I then took a further reference shot to
2 show the electrodes in place.
3 Q. Before the paramedics approached Dr Kelly's body, can
4 you remember what position it was in?
5 A. Lying on its back with its head at the base of a tree,
6 a large tree. The head was tilted to the left. The
7 right arm was by the side. The left arm was palm down.
8 There was a large amount of blood on the back of the
9 left arm. There was a watch and a curved knife by that
10 wrist.
11 Q. And you say a curved knife. Was it open? Was it a pen
12 knife?
13 A. It was open. I have seen gardening pruning knives which
14 look identical. I would have called it a pruning knife.
15 Q. Did you see a bottle of water?
16 A. I did, by Dr Kelly's head. There was an open bottle of
17 Evian, 500 ml or 300 ml bottle, with the cap by the side
18 of it, by his head.
19 Q. Was it upright?
20 A. It was leaning slightly. It had been propped but it was
21 upright. There was still some water in it.
22 Q. What injuries did you see on the body itself?
23 A. I could not see any actual injuries because the
24 injuries, I believe, were hidden by the wrist being
25 turned down. But there was a large amount of blood

1 there, and also from the mouth, the corner of -- the
2 right-hand corner of the mouth to the ear there was
3 a dark stain where I took it that Dr Kelly had vomited
4 and it had run down the side of his face.
5 Q. What about on his face, were there any marks or stains
6 on his clothes?
7 A. His jeans -- he was wearing jeans, they were pulled up
8 slightly, exposing the lower half of his leg or his
9 ankle. It looked as if he had slid down and his
10 trousers had ridden up. I believe on the right-hand
11 knee there was a patch of what I took to be blood, but
12 I do not know what it was, but it had the appearance of
13 blood.
14 Q. Did he still have his jacket on?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Were there any marks on the jacket, as far as you could
17 see?
18 A. No, only the blood from his wrist.
19 Q. Now, after you had taken the photographs and seen the
20 body, did you carry out any further searches?
21 A. Yes. On the way back -- once we had finished with the
22 body, once the paramedics had finished, we went back
23 down the common approach path to the path where DC Coe
24 and the two uniformed officers were. We then walked,
25 leaving them there to guard the scene so nobody else

1 could approach it, we then walked back to the truck, our
2 Land Rover, and drove that up where we got some more
3 metal poles. We extended the common approach path from
4 one pole to two poles to about a 2 foot 6 gap, so people
5 could walk up and down. We then had a quick look on
6 that path, a search, just to check there were no major
7 items there. And then we waited for the senior
8 investigating officer to arrive and liaise with
9 Police Constable Franklin.
10 Q. The senior investigating officer was?
11 A. DCI Young.
12 Q. I think we heard from PC Franklin earlier a further
13 search was then carried out.
14 A. Yes. It was decided a search of the woods 10 metres
15 either side of the body, on the approach up the hill to
16 the body, would be carried out. I was tasked by
17 Police Constable Franklin to organise that. I had
18 a number of searchers at my disposal. Because of my
19 number of searchers I decided to split it into three
20 5 metre wide approaches up to the body.
21 Q. This involves searching what you call the common
22 approach path?
23 A. Yes. The first search would include the common approach
24 path. So my team of -- if I may refer to my notes.
25 Q. Yes.

1 A. I had a team of seven searchers initially, so I put
2 those into a 5 metre grid pattern which works up towards
3 the body, and that would include the common approach
4 path. So the first sweep, the first 5 metre search
5 included the fingertip search of the common approach
6 path.
7 Q. And that was carried out at what time?
8 A. That was carried out at -- sorry, we have an awful lot
9 of paperwork when we are doing this job. It was started
10 at 13.08 that first sweep.
11 Q. How many sweeps do you do? You talk about the first
12 sweep.
13 A. Right. My plan shows there were six zones eventually
14 which we searched. The first zone, zone 1, was to the
15 right-hand side of the common approach path to include
16 the common approach path. The second zone was 5 metres
17 beyond that, which took us up to level with the area
18 that we had taped off surrounding the body. Zone 3 was
19 the zone to the left of the common approach path.
20 Zone 4, 5 metres further on from that. Zone 5 was the
21 10 metre radius round the back of the area where the
22 body had been found, which was really dense brambles and
23 overgrown trees. And zone 6 was the area where the body
24 itself had been lying.
25 Q. We do not have a photograph here at the moment but what

1 was the nature of the woods around the common approach
2 path and then where the body was found?
3 A. Up the common approach path to where the -- the common
4 approach path was the easiest route in, and either side
5 of that the undergrowth was reasonably light. But as
6 you moved away each side, left and right, the
7 undergrowth became extremely heavy. Zone 5, which went
8 round the back of the scene, was almost impenetrable and
9 the searchers had a really hard job getting through the
10 brambles and the undergrowth to check the ground.
11 Q. Obviously Dr Kelly had managed to get to where he was,
12 but in the searches you did were you able to identify
13 any footprints at all which would have explained how he
14 got there?
15 A. He had moved up through the woods to the last area,
16 where there was clear access. If I was walking into
17 those woods myself I would have walked up as far as he
18 had before deciding it was impossible to go any further,
19 because there were footpaths apparently which led
20 through that but they were so overgrown nobody had been
21 through them for a number of months.
22 Q. In other words, it was possible to walk to where
23 Dr Kelly's body was found without much difficulty?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. If you wanted to go any further you would have to go

1 through very dense --
2 A. You would struggle, really struggle, yes.
3 Q. How long was the common approach path?
4 A. Estimate between 50 and 70 metres.
5 Q. When did that search finish, can you recall?
6 A. The final search finished at 19.45. We had to wait
7 until Dr Kelly's body was removed before we could search
8 zone 6, which is where the body had been lying.
9 Q. You were involved in all these searches?
10 A. Yes, I team led the team searches. When you are a team
11 leader and you are assigned to this, you see it all the
12 way through from beginning to end.
13 Q. At the end of the search, did you collect all the suits
14 you had been wearing?
15 A. Yes, I collected all the suits from both search teams.
16 As PC Franklin has said, halfway through or towards the
17 end the search teams were changed through fatigue, and
18 all the teams' suits and all the gloves were collected
19 and produced as an exhibit.
20 Q. They were taken back to the police station?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. On the next day were you on duty as well, Saturday
23 19th July?
24 A. Yes, I was. I returned to duty the following day again
25 to work with PC Franklin as he wanted me to team lead

1 a search of Dr Kelly's house.
2 Q. And what did you do once you got there?
3 A. Whenever we search a premise the first thing we do is
4 walk through with the search adviser and we, again, just
5 check the parameters of the search. The search was to
6 include the house, any out-buildings, garages, cars and
7 the grounds, which were extensive in this particular
8 case. The house itself is a very large house.
9 Q. What were the results of the search of the grounds of
10 the house? Was there anything noticed?
11 A. The grounds there was nothing found.
12 Q. And what about in the house itself?
13 A. The house itself there were a number of exhibits. Do
14 you want me to go through them all?
15 Q. I do not think you need you to go through all the
16 exhibits themselves. Was there anything particular,
17 apart from documents and so forth that you found in the
18 house?
19 A. No. Basically there were documents that were taken
20 away. I believe there was a photograph found in his
21 study which has envisaged a little interest, but when
22 I am team leading the search, the officers who find the
23 exhibits will take them straight to the exhibits
24 officer, who books them in to the exhibits. They then
25 tell me so I can log them in my records, but I am not

1 looking over their shoulder the whole time although I do
2 travel round and supervise.
3 Q. Can you remember when the search of the premises began
4 on the 19th?
5 A. The search began at 11.05.
6 Q. And when did it finish on that day?
7 A. It finished at 20.50, 10 to 9 that evening. The search
8 of the study was concluded, and that was the last place
9 to be finished.
10 Q. I should have asked you this a moment ago, but while you
11 were searching in the woods did you find anything at all
12 which indicated that any other people had been there?
13 A. No, nothing. Normally when we search wooded areas there
14 is a fair amount of detritus, crisp packets, bottles,
15 cans, cigarette ends. This area itself was remarkable
16 for its complete lack of human interference.
17 Q. I take it you did not find any footprints?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Would that be normal? Obviously Dr Kelly had got in
20 there, but you would not have expected to see his
21 footprints there?
22 A. I would not have expected to find any footprints in that
23 area because of the undergrowth itself. There was not
24 a lot of bare earth for footprints to be recorded on;
25 and when I first saw Dr Kelly I was very aware of the

1 serious nature of the search and I was looking for signs
2 of perhaps a struggle; but all the vegetation that was
3 surrounding Dr Kelly's body was standing upright and
4 there were no signs of any form of struggle at all.
5 Q. Is there anything else you would like to say which you
6 think might cast some light on the circumstances --
7 A. I can think of nothing else which will help the Inquiry.
8 LORD HUTTON: Thank you very much indeed, Constable.
9 A. My Lord.
10 MR DINGEMANS: Detective Sergeant Webb, please.
12 Examined by MR DINGEMANS
13 Q. Can you tell his Lordship your full name?
14 A. Yes, my name is Geoffrey Hugh Webb.
15 Q. What is your occupation?
16 A. I am a Detective Sergeant of the Thames Valley Police
17 currently stationed at Didcot.
18 Q. Were you involved in the search for Dr Kelly?
19 A. No, I was not.
20 Q. What was your role in relation to this?
21 A. I was called in to work on that day --
22 Q. That is 18th July?
23 A. That is right -- at 4 am in the morning; and I was
24 tasked, at that time, to go and meet Mrs Kelly and to
25 chat with her and basically to debrief her on the

1 circumstances of Dr Kelly's disappearance.
2 Q. Who had called you?
3 A. I was called in by my detective inspector at that time.
4 Q. And what time did you arrive at work?
5 A. Quarter to 5.
6 Q. Quarter to 5. Where was that?
7 A. At Abingdon police station.
8 Q. How long did you stay at Abingdon police station?
9 A. For approximately an hour and a quarter, and then I went
10 to Southmore.
11 Q. What were you doing while you were at Abingdon police
12 station?
13 A. I was briefed on what had gone on previously.
14 Q. Who by?
15 A. By various people, including a uniformed sergeant who
16 had been -- who had spent the night with the
17 Kelly family and who had originally taken the report of
18 Dr Kelly's disappearance.
19 Q. Do you remember who that was?
20 A. His name was Sergeant Simon Morris.
21 Q. He had come back to the police station?
22 A. He returned to Abingdon police station and briefed those
23 present of what had gone on during the night.
24 Q. What had gone on during the night?
25 A. As I understand it, they had done some searching of the

1 area, as much as they could possibly do in the dark.
2 Q. Who had done that?
3 A. Uniformed police officers.
4 Q. Do you remember how many?
5 A. I could not say at the moment.
6 Q. Were you told about a helicopter that had been used?
7 A. I understand the helicopter had been used in an attempt
8 to find any sort of zones of heat, I believe they call
9 that.
10 Q. What had been the result of those night-time searches?
11 A. They were all negative.
12 Q. So Sergeant Morris had come back to Abingdon police
13 station. How many officers were in Abingdon police
14 station at this time in the morning?
15 A. Who had been called in?
16 Q. Yes.
17 A. I should imagine about 10 of us.
18 Q. What were you told?
19 A. Basically that Dr Kelly had left his home the previous
20 afternoon and had not been seen; the fact that the
21 family had made some attempt to try to find him
22 themselves but, again, this had proved fruitless and
23 that they had called the police, I believe slightly
24 prior to midnight the evening before.
25 Q. And Sergeant Morris had taken that call?

1 A. Whether he took the call or not is a different matter,
2 but he certainly went to the Kellys' home. I do not
3 know whether he actually took the call; I would imagine
4 he did not.
5 Q. Did he tell you what had happened in relation to his
6 attempts to search that night?
7 A. Not specifically, no. He basically gave us the
8 background in relation -- or the background prior to
9 Dr Kelly's disappearance, what he had done during the
10 day.
11 Q. And as a result of all that information that you had
12 received, where did you go?
13 A. I then went back to Dr Kelly's home.
14 Q. What time did you arrive?
15 A. 7.15 in the morning; and I sat there then and I spoke at
16 length with Mrs Kelly and the two daughters, Rachel and
17 Sian.
18 Q. And what was the aim of that?
19 A. Really to see if any clue could be attained as to (1)
20 why Dr Kelly should absent himself in such
21 circumstances; and (2) where he would go having absented
22 himself.
23 Q. Were you given any information which assisted in
24 relation to that?
25 A. To be honest, not really, no. I mean, the Kelly family

1 were very upbeat at that time. They were very hopeful
2 that no harm had come to Dr Kelly. In fact, they
3 genuinely believed I think that perhaps he had become
4 ill somewhere.
5 Q. Were you joined by anyone?
6 A. I was joined by WPC Karen Roberts, yes, slightly later
7 that same morning.
8 Q. What was her role?
9 A. She was going to take on the role of being a family
10 liaison officer and really to look after the
11 Kelly family, you know, during the following inquiry.
12 Q. How long did you stay at the house for?
13 A. I left the house at about 8 am to return to Abingdon
14 police station, at that time to tell -- it was Assistant
15 Chief Constable Page at that particular time, what the
16 result of my inquiries were. I mean Dr Kelly's mood,
17 the exact circumstances of his disappearance et cetera.
18 Q. How many police were searching at this stage, were you
19 aware?
20 A. I could not say sir, I do not know.
21 Q. What time did you brief Assistant Chief Constable Page?
22 A. I got back to Abingdon I suppose about 8.30, immediately
23 spoke to him for about 15 or 20 minutes, until really
24 the news came in that a body had been found.
25 Q. What did you do as a result of that?

1 A. I was then tasked to go back to the Kelly family and to
2 give them the news that it would seem that Dr Kelly had
3 been found and that he was dead.
4 Q. How long did you stay at the house?
5 A. I remained there then for the majority of the day.
6 Q. While you were at the house, did you carry out any
7 searches?
8 A. Whilst I was there, I carried out a very cursory search
9 of Dr Kelly's study.
10 Q. And did you find anything in the study?
11 A. I did and I took possession of certain items, yes.
12 Q. Right. What did you find there?
13 A. May I refer to my note?
14 LORD HUTTON: Yes, please do.
15 A. The search that I carried out, as I said, was a very
16 cursory search and really only encompassed things that
17 were within view. And the first thing that I looked
18 through was Dr Kelly's briefcase, which was closed. On
19 opening it I found firstly a letter dated 9th July 2003
20 addressed to Dr Kelly from a Richard Hatfield headed
21 "Discussions with the media".
22 MR DINGEMANS: Was that an opened letter?
23 A. No, that letter was in an envelope which was sealed, and
24 I opened it.
25 Q. So you were the first person to open it?

1 A. I was, sir, yes.
2 Q. Can I take you to MoD/1/69? You should see a document
3 appearing shortly on the screen. Do you recognise this
4 document if we scroll down it?
5 A. That would appear to be the same document, yes, sir.
6 Q. You found it in a sealed envelope?
7 A. That was in a sealed envelope addressed to Dr Kelly.
8 Q. Handwritten?
9 A. I seem to recall it being a handwritten envelope, but I
10 cannot swear to that.
11 Q. Did you find anything else?
12 A. I did. There was a letter dated 10th July 2003
13 addressed to Dr Kelly from someone called
14 Steve Priestley.
15 Q. Can I take you to MoD/1/74? What do we see here?
16 A. Yes, that is the document that I saw.
17 Q. Was that in an envelope?
18 A. No, that was just open.
19 Q. Right.
20 LORD HUTTON: So there was no envelope at all you saw in
21 respect of that?
22 A. Not for the letter from Stephen Priestley, no.
23 MR DINGEMANS: Then another document.
24 A. A handwritten note entitled "Gabriel's concerns."
25 Q. That appeared to relate to Iraq and weapons of mass

1 destruction?
2 A. That is correct, yes.
3 Q. Anything else?
4 A. An e-mail message dated 14th July 2003 attached to
5 several papers entitled "The House of Commons Defence
6 Committee oral evidence sessions. Notes for guidance".
7 Q. Did you find anything else in your search that day?
8 A. I did. I then checked Dr Kelly's desk, where his
9 computer had been installed, and the first thing
10 I notice were a number of business cards which had
11 apparently originated from journalists.
12 Q. Right. And you took those?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Anything else?
15 A. A year 2003 diary.
16 Q. And we have, in fact, seen extracts from that. So you
17 obviously took that as well, did you?
18 A. Yes. I then also took a Sainsbury's notebook which
19 contained handwritten notes, together with four loose
20 sheets of A4 paper also containing handwritten notes.
21 On briefly scanning that notebook, the last page seemed
22 to contain a list of journalists.
23 Q. And I think we have seen extracts from that handwritten
24 note, including Dr Kelly's note of his meeting on
25 14th July. Did you recover anything else?

1 A. Yes, there were Ministry of Defence and Foreign Affairs
2 documentation concerning Dr Kelly's involvement with
3 journalists.
4 Q. And you produced and identified all of that?
5 A. I did, yes.
6 Q. What else did you search?
7 A. In his office he had a low coffee table; and on that
8 there was a copy of a letter dated 30th June 2003 from
9 Dr Kelly to Dr Bryan Wells, Director of Proliferation
10 and Arms Control Secretariat, headed "Andrew Gilligan
11 and his single anonymous source".
12 Q. If we go to MoD/1/19, and scroll down the page, is this
13 the document?
14 A. That is the document, sir, yes.
15 LORD HUTTON: "Dear Bryan", was that name written on it?
16 A. That is correct, yes.
17 LORD HUTTON: Thank you.
18 MR DINGEMANS: It was a photocopy rather than an original.
19 A. There were other copies of this letter, if I recall
20 correctly, but that one did have "Bryan" written on it.
21 Q. It was a photocopy rather than an original?
22 A. I believe so, yes.
23 Q. Anything else?
24 A. There was also Ministry of Defence and Foreign Affairs
25 documentation concerning Dr Kelly's involvement with

1 journalists, including a transcript of the Foreign
2 Affairs Committee examination of Andrew Gilligan.
3 Q. Printed out from a web page?
4 A. I could not say. It was printed out certainly. Whether
5 it came from a web page I would not know.
6 Q. What else was on the coffee table?
7 A. There was a purple


Trowbridge H. Ford said...

I find this transcript of the testimony of Louise Holmes, Paul Chapman, and PCs Franklin and Sawyer most disturbing.

The testimony of Holmes and then Chapman after the break are quite different.

She testified about going up to the river, and meeting the three or four people from the boat moored down on The Thames. Then she answered if she, her dog, and Chapman had gone along the river, though it had not been part of the area they had been asked to search since they had completed that assignment.

She said that they went along the north boundary of the woods apparently to the right of the area they had been asked to search until it thinned out a good bit, went into the area to the south, and then started following the dog from the east who was now going back west where he found Kelly after having traveled about 200 meters through thick underbrush - what would explain many of Kelly's minor injuries as he went through it, trying to escape from his killers.

After the hearing resumed, Chapman said that they want back down the trail that they come until they reached the bobbed-wired fence which had blocked their way up. Then they went again through the north side of the woods on Harrowdown Hill.

The only trouble with Chapman's testimony was that the area they would have to go through was not heavy brush, and going 200 meters west from there would put them out in open country.

And the PCs' testimony only compounded Chapman's apparently false testimony when they said that DC Coe had found the body, only 50 to 70 meters off the main footpath.

Surely, the body had just been moved from where Holmes said her party found it, and the police were putting together all the necessary evidence, especially now the pool of blood, which would make it looked like Kelly killed himself here.

This is a mind-bogging coverup.

Sabretache said...

I have studied the Inquiry transcripts in depth. I have also studied the geography of Harrowdown Hill and environs in depth and I find no inconsistencies whatsoever between the testimonies of Holmes and Chapman. They had NOT completed their tasked search area when they arrived at the Thames and the only reason they moved Eastwards along the towpath for a short distance was because Holmes' dog had indicated the presence of people - whom they then talked with.

They then returned to search the wooded area of Harrowdown to the north of the barbed-wire fence which runs East-West through the wood about 1/3 up from its southerly perimeter. The location of the body from their evidence places it about 1/3 of the east-west width of the wood in from its eastern boundary.

There are masses of inconsistencies and anomalies with the inquiry evidence but the body location indicated in both Holmes' and Chapman's evidence is not one of them so far as I can see.

Trowbridge H. Ford said...

Just the kind of statement from authority which you are generally most opposed to, sabretache, as if I have not studied maps and other testimony about the killing quite carefully.

In your explanation, you leave out the fact that the wood on Harrowdown Hill has a diameter of only a little over 100 meters, a terrain which is easy to traverse, and had been thoroughly searched by her team before it went up to the river.

Then Ms. Holmes talked about going up to The Thames because of Brock scenting the boat people, then his leading them along the river because of scenting someone else, and finally leading it into a wood from the east, and finding the body after a most difficult tramp of 200 meters to the west.

There is no way that this could have happened in their assigned area to the left of Comman Lane.

Moreover, there is a considerable lack of accounting for the passage of time between Holmes finding the body, and PCs Franklin and Sawyer inspecting the area where DC Coe had then located the body - 50 to 70 meters to the west of Common Lane.

And I find it even more strange for you not to permit discussion of this matter on your site Wikispooks where you deny that Kelly was murdered because it was not in Britain's or Iraq's interest to do so, as if they were the only parties who could!

As I recall, the Mossad - which had authority to get rid of any terrorist in the UK as long as it did not use firearms - was accustomed to dispose of any suspected one, according to former Director David Kimche, if outed by the PM.

Did Blair call for Kelly's murder without realizing it?

Sabretache said...


The wooded area of Harrowdown Hill is, at minimum 250metres E-W and 350 meters N-S. A walk from the path at the northern extremity of the wood around its perimeter moving west and veering south to the Barbed wire fence is at a minimum 350 meters. My reading of the evidence has Holmes and Chapman traversing that route on their return from the Thames. They then retraced their steps and entered the wood with the dog somewhere just below its NE corner from the path. A 200 meter line drawn SW from the NE corner would end at the approx centre of the wooded area. I repeat, I see no inconsistency whatsoever in the evidence about the body location - only in its precise position - ie head and shoulders against the tree (Holmes and Chapman) or flat on its back (DC Coe and everyone who arrived later) - IOW, on the evidence, Coe disturbed the body but stated categorically that he didn't.

As for your other remarks; where on earth do you get the idea that I do not allow discussion of these points on Wikispooks, or that I disagree that Kelly was murdered? - both the precise opposite of my position.

I also agree that Mossad may have had a hand in it but favour the US SIS's - see my comment on the David Kelly talk page at Wikispooks for the reason

Trowbridge H. Ford said...

I don't know where my last post went - one in which I disputed sabretache's false claims about wikispooks willingness to discuss these claims and resolve them, his completely concocted dispute with Toolbox about what might have happened to Dr. Kelly and by whom, and, most important, his completely misplacing where his body was found, as this link about the wooded areas in the area shows:

Willing to repeat my extended claims if any unbiased person wants, but until then, hope sabretache just sticks to his disinformation on

Trowbridge H. Ford said...

Since no one seems interested in this massive coverup of a key assassination, I should add these points until I get around writing an extended article about it:

1. The wood of Harrowdown Hill is only about one/third the size that sabretache claimed: 250 meters south to north, and 130 meters east to west. Moreover, given the fence cutting through it - what the search party never went over - there is no way that it could have walked there 200 meters through any alleged difficult terrain.

2. Why was the SEBEV' Control in the search, Neil Knight, never called to explain his most bizarre behavior - i.e., having it search the more open area to the left of the path - what the TVP helicopter had flown over during the night, and never found any evidence of Kelly - and then never being able to be contacted after it surprisingly found him? Did Knight make any provision for the right side of the path to be searched?

3. Isn't it the case that it was only because of the dog's picking up Kelly's scent, and those of his killers at the boat moored at the Thames that Holmes and Chapman were led on the most arduous chase to where his body was found - 200 meters into the wood paralleling the river, and one so difficult that Holmes was obliged to take the route in for the route out?

Trowbridge H. Ford said...

Now we learn that the TVP lied to the Hutton Inquiry when it said that no unknown fingerprints were found on his dental records when, in fact, there was six unknown ones on them, thanks to another foi disclosure.

The press, particularly the Daily Mail, is still making out that the records were stolen after Kelly had died when it was only then that it was discovered. The break-in must have occurred while he was still alive.

Why were the records stolen?

Seems that his killers wanted to make sure that they killed the right person. Kelly at the time could have well adopted measures to make his identification more difficult for any apparent assassins, and we really don't know for sure that he hadn't, as we have never been shown a photograph of the deceased.

Kelly's dental records would make sure that no blunder occurred, and would explain better why there were contusions on his lips - i. e., his mouth had to be pried open not only to stuff drugs down his gullet, but also to make sure he was the Dr. David Kelly.

This international conspiracy murder of considerable complexity, and covered up by mind-bogging gyrations makes novels about such matters look like the tamest of the genre.

Trowbridge H. Ford said...

Thanks, David, as I certainly plan to continue to post as this one demonstrates.

While I am concerned about late-term abortions, I am more concerned about murders of living people, like Dr. Kelly.

Today, the spotlight is on former NOTR reporter and whistleblower Sean Hoare who was found dead in his Luton flat yesterday.

Hoare was fired for drink and drug abuse by the NOTW, and then started complaining about its systematic phone-hacking, ordered by editor Andy Coulson, and what the other editors engaged in.

The Met did not take his claims seriously until The New York Times published an article in early September 2010 which corroborated what Hoare had claimed, especially the statement by a former editor, obviously Neil Wallis.

Wallis had been hired by the Met to keep track of what I was claiming about the spineless MPs and the weakness of Parliament, their replacement by security bureaucracies and especially Sir John Chilcot, and about covert government's involvement in shoot-to-kill murders, espcially the assassination of Sweden's statsminister Olof Palme, once efforts to entrap me by the FBI and the Swedish Security Services through the efforts by 'Jihad Jane' aka Colleen LaRose had failed in October 2009.

Wallis had served the Met leadership well when he kept the lid on why Derrick Bird aka Soldier 'C' in the Bradley assassination went on the rampage in Cumbria after Northern Ireland Attorney General John Larkin ordered a new inquest in late May 2010.

The NYT article showed the Met that Wallis was clearly the phone-hacking threat, and they immediately fired him - what caused the war between Wallis and the Met's leadership.

When Chief Commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson suddenly resigned, the war became ballistic, resulting in the immediate suspicious death of Hoare, reminiscent of what happened not only to Kelly but also GMP Chief Constable Mike Todd.

Police investigating Hoare's most convenient death didn't explain how they learned about it, immediately ruled it a likely suicide, left the premises unattended for around three hours (was the body still there?), and only brought in the forsenic people after the police had known about the apparent death for around 12 hours.

Did Hoare really kill himself, either diberately or accidentally? Could he have been poisoned? Was he really dead when the police arrived? Why was the scene left unattended?

Could the local police have been aiding and abetting a killing in order to settle scores with an obvious target for rabid Wallis's benefit, and to obtain revenge for the discredited Met leadership?

Trowbridge H. Ford said...

Now I have learned that Sean Hoare had dinner with NYT reporters Don Van Natta, Jr., and Jo Becker - whose article on September 1, 2010 started the whole unravelling of the phone-hacking scandal, thanks to Neil Wallis confirming Hoare's claims - on Tuesday, July 12th.

This must have represented a great triumph for Hoare, and they reported that he was in good spirits, though he was still suffering from the damage to his nose and foot.

The last person who saw him said he looked a bit yellow - apparently gaundice which the police were quick to connect to his misuse of alcohol and drugs, though it could be the result of poisoning, like in the Gareth Williams murder.

From then until his body was discovered on Monday, no one had any knowledge about him, though there were repeated, unanswered calls to his flat in Watford. Who made these calls, why, and why they were not looked into when unanswered remains unanswered.

Seems like the caller or callers were trying to find out if Hoare was okay, at least still alive, but his failure of answer had to be postponed, it seems, until the Met leadership had resigned - what Chief Commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson thought his assistant John Yates should have done when his failure were exposed, and Stephenson did surprisingly on Sunday evening when he didn't.

Of course, this greatly reduced the Met's problems, and the discovery of Hoare's death on Monday still more. The delayed discovery of the body would also make determining the cause of death, if it were by, say, death cap mushrooms, even more difficult, as the toxins rapidly disintegrate, along with the body organs - what the police are just continuing by their no-hurry approach to getting the results from the toxicology tests.

The only good thing that has happened since, as even The Guardian does not consider the deceased Hoare any longer as a player in the scandal, is that Jenny Jones, a member of the Metropolitcan Police Authority and the Green Party candidate for the Mayor of London, has asked the Met to look into Sean's claims about police officers taking bribes for providing information about the whereabouts of interested targets for the NOTW.

Could become a real threat to Boris Johnson's re-election chances.

Trowbridge H. Ford said...

Dr. Kelly's apparent murder will finally be put to rest on Monday, it seems, when a High Court hearing dismisses a call by Dr. Halpin that there be a new inquest into how he died.

Dr. Halpin has failed to state that he thinks Kelly was murdered, only claiming as a doctor that he doubts that he died from blood loss.

This was because his body was moved by his killers, the Mossad kidon from the boat moured on the Thames during the fatal night.

The High Court judge will just rule that there are no suspects named in the petition, and that there is nothing suspicious about Kelly's death, just possibly some still unknown factors which no new inquest can answer, and don't matter anyway.